[publictransport] response re booking system

Fri Feb 8 12:51:42 EST 2008

Hi Julia,

l agree with what you have mentioned and understand being able to get bikes
on VLine services for any reason is impt.

The only thing is, it is most likely that if they are going to introduce a
booking system it will be a blanket booking otherwise it will possibly be
too confusing/limiting.

I dont know if all VLine trains, re locomotives which usually have a guards
carriage, is available on all lines, which l imagine would be. What l take
you are referring to is the locomotive service, surely being able to only
book on these might limit the time you can travel, linking in with xyz etc?
But then again l imagine that would be better than no access at all.

The issue from how l see it, is that the complaints was related to bikes on
all trains in peak hour travel. On the whole, but not limited to, peak hour
commuter cyclists it seems are the majority going to work, then there are
schoolies and recreational etc

So the target is affecting those who need to get to work first off. If a
booking system in peak hour or other, that had limitations on the numbers of
cyclists who could get on a train were introduced, this would limit the
capacity of all cyclists including those wanting to book their bikes to go
touring, as the number that could be booked would no doubt be less than the
number of bikes that would be allowed on.

l can see limited advantages to a booking system, but l ask that you see the
disadvantages if the system as it mostly likely will, comes with
limitations, as in the immediate simply not enough space to accommodate all
bikes, people, luggage etc.

If a booking system were in place for locomotives only, and bikes could only
be booked onto these trains, this would seriously impact on a large number
of commuter cyclists who need to get to work and school, locos generally
dont run early enough.

lm just wanting to put out some thoughts about this issue in the event
of.........at the meeting we had no time to discuss anything in detail.

lm a touring cyclists myself, having toured locally and overseas so l can
sympathise, but even booking systems overseas l experience, showed it wasnt
the answer by any means, as it still didnt provide enough facilities. And
the common answer was just book when a space was available, which in most
instances did not fit in with my touring timetable.

Jill Gibson
03-5472 3098
0409404791
****************************************************************************
****************************************************************************
***********
mistress soap maker
bee whisperer
goddess of cycling and recycling
bantam tamer

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way! On a quiet day, if
you listen carefully, you can hear her breathing"
Arundhati Roy
----- Original Message -----
From: <publictransport-request at yarrabug.org>
To: <publictransport at yarrabug.org>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 12:00 PM
Subject: publictransport Digest, Vol 2, Issue 7

> Send publictransport mailing list submissions to
> publictransport at yarrabug.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://yarrabug.org/mailman/listinfo/publictransport_yarrabug.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> publictransport-request at yarrabug.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> publictransport-owner at yarrabug.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of publictransport digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: publictransport Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6 (jillian gibson)
>    2. Re: publictransport Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6 (Julia Blunden)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 19:36:08 +1100
> From: "jillian gibson" <jillg at vic.chariot.net.au>
> Subject: Re: [publictransport] publictransport Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6
> To: <publictransport at yarrabug.org>, "Brianna Laugher"
> <brianna.laugher at gmail.com>, "Chris Star" <telstar at cfsmtb.net>
> Message-ID: <002801c86964$bbea4e00$a756543a at q3o7f9>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Ah Brianna, you have a way with words and observations .... love it!
>
> Must be something in the bike water as l woke this morning feeling a tad
> under the proverbial myself.......
>
> So folks, all of what Brianna stated is a damn good summary and feel for
the
> mtg, which sadly was poorly, read not at all, facilited The Minister had
to
> deal with a table of very passionate folks with hands flying in the air in
> all directions, but trying to be contrained and polite at the same time.
It
> was difficult to really juice out a set of issues as we all had a
> version/part of the 'solution'. But what was discussed a bit thinly on the
> ground was the actual permanent repeal of the ban, which yes will be soon,
> but l suspect its the 'conditions' not the future plans, that will
accompany
> the repeal which may be contentious.
>
> l say this because the Min mentioned she was concerned that with the
lifting
> of the ban, she was nervous there would be a 'rush' by cyclists to get on
> trains..... not quite her words but you get the drift. This is an
> unsubstantaited fear and should not be the basis for the immediate
planning
> and decisions.
>
> Certainly education, signage will be easy, where to locate bikes in
specific
> carriages good idea and easyish to do, this is already set up in Vline,
and
> here comes the but, the Min seemed very interested in a booking system.
This
> can only be linked to limits on number of bikes and times, else there is
no
> need to have a booking system, besides getting data on the number of bikes
> on trains.
>
> (Vline trains at present technically only allow 4 bikes-2 per carraige-
per
> standard train. As things stand, we can get as many bikes on trains as
> possible, and like we are talking 5-7 bikes, more or less, but we are not
> talking this number of bikes all being on the Bendigo to SC trains, we are
> talking short distances in general 2-3 stops).
>
> >From the immediate there will no doubt be the future planning etc as
> outlined in Brianna notes. l have added feedback from Skye Holcombe, MAV
> policy advisor, which l have been given second hand, so please leave her
> name etc out of any web postings etc
>
> lm sending feedback to the Min, not on first names yet with Lynne, and
> Brianna and l didnt manage to get her business card (with direct ph line)
as
> we did from Jason and Harry. Feedback will be in relation to
> - negatives of a booking system
> -promotion of fold up bikes - cost issue and more importantly THIS PUTS
THE
> ONUS BACK ONTO CYCLISTS AGAIN!
> - that there are issues with bikes on trains in peak and non peak hours,
so
> the issue is acrosss the board
> - lack of recognition and support of the need for good management (vline)
re
> ordinary luggage, prams, shopping, freight, oversized luggage, wheel
chairs,
> zimmer frames, and bikes etc etc  all of which impact on the space that
can
> be allocated to bikes, but in practise bikes are in the scheme of things
> last priority, but it seems that the increased number of bikes has clashed
> with the above. So even though we can technically only fit 4 bikes on a
> train, bikes are in actual fact at the end of the food chain
>
> lm also going to suggest to the Min that one of her staff should be on
hand
> to assist with facilitation of next mtg.
>
> Thats it for now, the following is what Skye Holcombe wrote and emailed to
> Councils............
>
>
> Key outcome of the meeting:
>
> -Minister Kosky indicated she is keen to soon announce that the banning of
> bicycles on metropolitan and VLines trains during peak periods will be
> lifted indefinitely (the ban is currently not being enforced).
> -The Minister does not want to announce this policy shift without also
> announcing a suite of practical and achievable longer term solutions.
Hence,
> the announcement will be made as soon as potential measures have been
given
> due consideration.
> -The Minister emphasized that she wished to make an announcement very
soon.
>
> Potential solutions Government expressed interest in exploring:
> -The Minister is aware there is a shortage of good storage facilities at
> stations around Victoria and this is something her team is looking in to.
> -The promotion of folding bicycles (cost between $500-$2000) which may be
> permitted on trams and buses as well as trains (Minister will consult with
> Bus Association of Victoria and Yarra Trams).
> -Short of providing more trains in peak periods, Connex will examine ways
to
> modify train carriages to allow the transportation of bicycles.
Suggestions
> from the group included flip up chairs, bike hooks and clear designation,
> through signage, promotion and education for bike users and other train
> passengers, about where bicycles should be parked while in transit.
> -Education was highlighted as key to encouraging sustainable transport
> options and achieving greater public acceptance of bikes on trains.
> -The group encouraged government to explore 'best practice' options from
> around the world, including the strapping of bikes onto buses.  The
Minister
> highlighted safety concerns as an obstacle to hooking bikes on the back of
> trams.
>
> Minister Kosky acknowledged:
> -Consultation was inept and her department had made a mistake in the
design
> and delivery of this policy.
> -Different solutions may be required for VLine passengers/commuters (VLine
> user groups presented issues on behalf of rural/regional train users).
> -Passenger congestion on trains is the source of the problem which has
been,
> and will continue to be exacerbated by population growth (18 Connex trains
> are on order and due for delivery by end of year 2009. Velocity trains
have
> also been ordered).
> -This issue has highlighted the role of bicycles in encouraging
sustainable
> transport options, particularly in the context of reducing Victoria's road
> congestion.
> -The government want to encourage bicycle usage and understand the message
> from this policy did not reflect or support the government's overall aims.
> -The Minister also indicated she did not want to introduce separate bike
> charges for train travel or other charges etc.
> -The Minister apologized for the clumsy handling of the situation on
> numerous occasions.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 21:11:48 +1100
> From: "Julia Blunden" <jblunden at bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: [publictransport] publictransport Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6
> To: "'Public transport access for all users'"
> <publictransport at yarrabug.org>
> Message-ID:
>
<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAEtBCtMca40+25SohQ+3F0MKAAAAQ
AAAAs+45hQPFtkGEWUMmkpZp8AEAAAAA at bigpond.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I was one of the people advocating a booking system for V/Line trains. I
> wouldn't envisage this applying to all V/Line trains but there are some
> trains for which reservations are required. These are often the trains
used
> by cycle tourists, to destinations such as Wangaratta, Bairnsdale,
> Warrnambool and Swan Hill.
>
> I recognise that many V/Line trains are used regularly by commuters.
However
> cycle tourism is also of importance and could in fact be a major growth
> industry in Victoria with all our wonderful rail trails.
>
> If you are organising for a group to do a cycle tour and paying to book
> train tickets and accommodation you really need certainty about getting
your
> bikes on the train. Hopefully if enough people booked bikes onto a given
> train this could trigger the decision to add an extra luggage van to
> accommodate them all. That's how it should work anyway.
>
> In fact the trains used by cycle tourers are rarely the same trains as
those
> used by commuters. Tourers are usually heading out of the city as
commuters
> are heading in and vice versa.
>
> Julia Blunden
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> publictransport mailing list
> publictransport at yarrabug.org
> http://yarrabug.org/mailman/listinfo/publictransport_yarrabug.org
>
>
> End of publictransport Digest, Vol 2, Issue 7
> *********************************************